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Drums in Bluegrass Yes or No?
(research results - Feb. 7, 2006)


Concerning the acceptance of drums within bluegrass music, below a short summary
of the results from our voting audience for the "Yes" or "No" baskets but you may note from
the results that this was not a simple binary question.

The votes came in as an input from 69 voters all around the world in the
following descending order of quantity of votes received by country:

USA, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, Denmark, France, Italy, Germany,
Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Czech Republic, New Zealand

THE "YES" BASKET
THE "NO" BASKET"

.

18 people voted "Yes" (average age: 52 years old) 51 people voted "No" (average age: 50 years old)
from whom some specified:
from whom some specified:
Yes but just a snare drum with a brush No, ..... but....
Swing ! Boys! NO! NO! NO!
Yes, soft drums or percussion NO drums please
Yes, but prefer a mando chop No Drums
  Noooooooooo
  I prefer the version without drums
  absolutely not, never
  Hell no we won't go
  No - twang that bass!
  Preferably - NO!!
  Most certainly NOT!!
   
and some filled in their "Bumper Sticker" saying:
and some filled in their "Bumper Sticker" saying:
God - Protect me from thy followers there's no "beatin' "Bluegrass!
I like the Chicks! because Chicks like sticks! it's good music, but it ain't bluegrass with drums
Round and white is good enough for bluegrass Finger Pickin' Good
Yes for drums, Yes for nylon strings on banjo Bluegrass + Drums = Country
Dont be afraid to PICK a drummer Absolutely not!
Keep Music Live Brushes maybe
Drums are ok in some circumstances but ........... 2B1ASK1
Drums in Bluegrass? Only in Brasil! clasic bluegrass without drums,newgrass with drums
never heard drums in blue grass, but its sure good Tricky question! I play drums in a bluegrass band.
My Banjo is on Steroids I vote no for this example (already ?)
"The whole band is the rhythm section" - J. Garcia Pick it boy!
  Thanks for your work. Paolo
  Bluegrass is rythm by itself.
  It's the strings that make the rythme
  Bluegrass Rules!
  Drive, without drums. That's Bluegrass.
  There ain't no drums in bluegrass.
  Bluegrass Music Lives!!
  When I want drums, I listen to country!
  " That ain't no part of nuthin' "
  Drums in Bluegrass? Puleeeeeze
  It's already been tried years ago.No then, No now!
  Just Say No

We take this opportunity to show below two recent quotes from two bluegrass celebrities, bassman Tom Gray and banjo/guitar player Ron Block where you can see the concern of both about keeping bluegrass what it is, "GOOD MUSIC", independent of their "Drums Yes or No" flavored argument.

From: Tom Gray
OK, since I've been invited, I'll chime in, though I may live to regret it. I DO NOT LIKE DRUMS IN BLUEGRASS! In jazz, I actually enjoy a good drummer, for in jazz, they play with variety and dynamics, leaving the bassist room to improvise. In rock music, a strong drummer is necessary. In bluegrass, drums are usually destructive. I've heard many well-known BG artists overwhelmed by heavy drumming. It wasn't so bad when Jimmy Martin had only a snare, but a full drum set is too much for acoustic bluegrass.

Unfortunately, when drums are imposed on bluegrass, people seem to think it should be a country style of drumming - a dreadful, steady throbbing with a heavy downbeat. That downbeat is so strong, that it makes my efforts at playing a bass line secondary to the unimaginative pulse of the bass drum. Just like a pile driver! He's stepping on my feet! If I try to slip in anything other than that predictable throb, we wind up at cross-purposes. Some times when I've had to put up with a drummer in bluegrass, I wish I could take a baseball bat and break the drummer's right leg.

Of the Seldom Scene recordings that used drums, the only one I cared for was "Good Morning Mister Railroad Man". On that one, the audible part of the drums were brushes on the snare. On that one, I felt the bass and drums actually complimented each other. He was playing out of my range. No problem.
DRUMS AIN'T NO PART OF NUTHIN'!!
Tom Gray

(Portuguese translation by Erio Meili)
,Já que me convidaram para escrever, vou dizer, mesmo que depois venha me arrepender. NÃO GOSTO DE BATERIA NO BLUEGRASS!. De fato gosto de um bom baterista no Jazz, pois tocam com variedade e dinâmica, deixando espaço para o baixista na improvisação. Já no Rock, um baterista forte é necessário. No entanto, no Bluegrass, as baterias normalmente são destrutivas. Ouvi muitos artistas bluegrass bem conhecidos sendo esmagados por sons pesados de bateria. Não era tão mau quando o Jimmy Martin só tinha uma caixa de repique, mas, uma bateria completa está demais para um bluegrass acústico.

Infelizmente quando as baterias são impostas no bluegrass, parece que as pessoas estão pensando que deveria ter a batida do tipo Country - um espantoso latejo com a forte batida de bumbo na saida. Esta batida, é tão forte que coloca meu esforço de tocar a linha do baixo contra a pulsação pouco imaginativa do bumbo, em segundo plano. Como um operador de empilhadeira! Ele pisa nos meus pés! Caso eu queira encaixar qualquer coisa que não seja o batimento previsível, estaremos entrando numa cruzada. Tive vezes, quando me encontrava tocando com um baterista no bluegrass, que eu sonhava poder pegar um taco de baseball para quebrar a perna direita dele.

Das gravações do Seldom Scene que usavam bateria, a única pela qual eu me preocupava era "Good Morning Mister Railroad Man". Nessa, a parte audível da bateria eram as escovas por cima da caixa. E nessa, eu sentia que o baixo e a bateria de fato se completavam, uns aos outros. Ele estava tocando fora do meu raio, sem problema.
BATERIAS NÃO FAZEM PARTE DE NADA!!
Tom Gray

   

From: Ron Block
Regardless of what one thinks about "What is bluegrass", if a study is made of its origins there can be no doubt that the music is all about using tradition in a creative, fresh, innovative way. Bill Monroe, Earl Scruggs, Lester Flatt, Reno & Smiley, The Country Gentlemen, Jimmy Martin, J.D. Crowe and the New South, The Seldom Scene, the Osborne Brothers - even with that short list, think of the stylistic differences involved; think of the instrumental differences possible. The banjo was an innovation in Monroe's music at one time; the dobro was introduced late by Flatt and Scruggs and considered an aberration by hard-liners. Drums were added to the various bands of the forefathers on and off; tasteful drums, especially a snare, can indeed be a part of a bluegrass band - history proves it.

Monroe digested various traditional music forms as he grew up and those forms took him over; they began to mix and be expressed as his own music. Blues, fiddle tunes (many derived or handed down from the British Isles), and country music of the day all filtered through Monroe's mind and heart and then output in a form of his own. That's the heart of bluegrass, right there.

Bluegrass is never going to be completely defined because it's a paradox of tradition and innovation. If only one side of the paradox is rigidly held at the expense of the other it destroys what Bluegrass is. One side of the argument sees the outer form, 'the music as Bill originally played it with Flatt & Scruggs', etc., without understanding its root causes. This approach leads to a dog-in-the-manger attitude toward innovation. On the other side, to hold to innovation alone destroys the outer form; 'Bluegrass is whatever you want it to be, man.' Both sides of the paradox have to be operational for a band to be doing what Bill Monroe did at the origination point of the music.

Whatever musical leanings one has, the important thing is to 'eat' good music and allow the digesting of it to build one's musical identity. To adhere to a rigid system of rules, to fail to experiment based on 'what others will think of me', is musical death no matter what the level of outer success.
Ron

(Portuguese translation by Erio Meili)
Desconsiderando aquilo que cada um pensa sobre "O que é Bluegrass", se alguém fizer um estudo da sua origem, não poderá haver dúvida de que, esta música é tudo sobre usar tradição de forma criativa, refrescante e inovadora. Bill Monroe, Earl Scruggs, Lester Flatt, Reno & Smiley, The Country Gentlemen, Jimmy Martin, J.D. Crowe & the New South, The Seldom Scene, the Osborne Brothers - mesmo com esta lista curta, pense nas diferenças de estilo envolvidas; pense nas diferenças instrumentais possíveis.O banjo foi uma inovação na música de Monroe um tempo atrás; o dobro foi introduzido tarde por Flatt & Scruggs e era considerado uma aberração pela "linhas duras". A bateria foi adicionada, para lá e para cá, nas varias bandas dos nossos ancestrais; baterias de bom gosto, especialmente a caixa de repique, que pode de fato fazer parte de uma banda bluegrass - a história é prova disso.

Monroe digeria varias formas de música tradicional durante sua convivência, quando aquelas formas, que mandaram ele seguir em frente, começaram a se misturar e se tornaram uma expressão da sua própria música. Blues e melodias de rabeca, (muitas delas derivadas ou repassadas das ilhas britânicas), e a música country do dia, todos filtrados pela cabeça e coração de Monroe, e em seguida soltadas com a sua forma de autoria. Este é o coração do bluegrass, aí mesmo.

Bluegrass nunca será completamente definido porque se trata de um paradoxo de tradição e inovação. Se somente um lado do paradoxo for mantido com rigor à custas do outro, teremos a distruição daquilo que é o Bluegrass. Um lado do argumento enxerga o lado de fora, a música tal como era tocada originalmente por Bill com Flatt&Scruggs" etc, sem entender suas razões de origem. Esta aproximação nos leva à uma atitude de "instinto animal" verso a inovação. Do outro lado, insistindo somente na inovação, haverá a destruição da forma pelo lado de fora; "Bluegrass é aquilo que você quer que o seja, meu caro" Ambos os lados do paradoxo tem que ser operacionais para uma banda fazer aquilo que o Bill Monroe fez no ponto de origem da música.

Qualquer que seja a inclinaçao musical de alguém, é importante que se "coma" a música boa e se faça uma boa digestão dela a fim de construir sua identidade musical. Aderindo à um sistema rígido de regras, falhando de experimentar, se baseando só naquilo que "os outros possam pensar de mim", é a morte musical, independente do sucesso alheio.
Ron

You may still listen again to the two sound bites below for
"Hot Corn - Cold Corn" which was our guinea pig for the research
Thanks!
Erio Meili
SPBMA - São Paulo Bluegrass Music Association
bluegrass@bluegrass.com.br

Original Recording in 1998
Re-mastered Recording in 2001
in Brazil - with drums
in Brazil - without drums
(No Band Name)
(SBB - SãoPaulo Bluegrass Band)