| ........... | From:
www.cybergrass.com.br
Date: June 13, 2008
Subject: Guinness World's Fastest
Banjo Player Open Again
Bob Cherry wrote: on Jun. 13, 2008:
Cybergrass had reported that Todd Taylor achieved the Guinness World Records
title of Fastest Banjo Player. A very short time later, Johnny Butten, took the
title. What ensued after that turned out to be a big PR game with Nashville News
Media and Todd Taylor. Mr. Butten had remained silent regarding our coverage.
Guinness has now sent us their position on the Fastest Banjo controversy.
What
happened is that both musicians played according to the old vague rules. These
rules are being rewritten by Guinness and when complete, the record will be returned
to a "clean slate." As it stands now, both Todd Taylor and Johnny Butten can each
claim that they had achieved a Guinness World Record however, neither can claim
that they are the current world record holder. According to Gaz Deaves, the music
records manager for Guinness World Records, "there is no banjo player currently
recognised by Guinness World Records as the fastest."
Both Mr. Gaz Deaves
and Mr. Marco Frigatti have stated, "the guidelines under which both Todd Taylor
and Johnny Butten attempted the Guinness World Record did not allow for the level
of precision necessary to judge between the two performances. Since it is vital
that all Guinness World Records must be comparable and breakable, we took the
decision to produce a new set of guidelines which will enable the competition
to resume in a fair and measurable way."
We have received some E-mails
and submissions to Cybergrass from Mr. Taylor and Nashville News Media indicating
that Mr. Butten was "disqualified" but, according to Marco Frigatti, Director
of Records for Guinness World Records in London, this is not true. Mr. Frigatti
stated to us that "Jonny Butten (UK) and Todd Taylor (USA) both have claims to
the title, having held the Guinness World Record at one time. Both players have
reached a level of speed that was impossible to judge under our old guidelines,
so a whole new set of rules has been devised to find out who truly has the fastest
fingers."
It appears that Mr. Taylor and Nashville News Media, his PR
arm, have been circulating some old and obsolete E-mails to support a current
position that, according to Guinness World Records, does not exist today.
According
to the E-mails we've received from Guinness World Records, there is no current
Guinness World Record holder for the World's Fastest Banjo Player. As stated by
Gaz Deaves, "When the new guidelines have been finalised, the record category
will be re-opened as a 'clean slate', with no record holder until a claim is received
under the new system. We will, of course, invite both Mr. Butten and Mr. Taylor
to re-attempt the record using the new guidelines and look forward to reviewing
their evidence."
The new guidelines are not yet finalized but, again,
according to Guinness World Records, they will be much more concise and will require
both speed and accuracy in order to qualify and, all contestents must play the
same music per the same music tablature in the same way to be considered.
According
to the new guidelines neither Mr. Taylor nor Mr. Butten would qualify as Mr. Taylor
had many mistakes in his playing and Mr. Butten varied the beats-per-minute and
neither of these factors would be allowed with the new guidelines.
Per
our previous article, What's Really Going On with World's Fastest Banjo Record,
this is a short summary of the future judging process:
The full tablature
and sheet music is provided by Guinness World Records, which must be adhered to
exactly.
The performance must be completely clean, played exactly as per
the tablature with no mistakes whatsoever - even one wrong note invalidates the
attempt!
No speeding up or slowing down is permitted during performance
- a metronome must be used and kept at a constant speed.
An audio recording
must be supplied in an uncompressed, lossless format (.wav or similar) that can
be slowed down to ensure a flawless performance.
The record is measured
as the BPM speed at which the claimant can play the entire piece perfectly, with
absolutely no mistakes.
Cybergrass looks forward to the new World's Fastest
Banjo Player under these guidelines. This will create a level playing field for
all contestents and will insure integrity and value to future world record holders.
| .......... | | | from
the European web site www.ebma.org
Date: Sunday, 14 September 2008
Subject:
Europe (and the rest of the world) at IBMA's World of Bluegrass
IBMA's World of Bluegrass 2008 begins in Nashville on Monday 29 September. An
important event in the schedule will be the International Summit meeting (30 Sept.-1
Oct.), aimed at reaching a new consensus on IBMA's priorities for assisting the
growth of bluegrass worldwide. Europe is strongly represented, with over half
of the thirty members attending the Summit.
European musicians at World
of Bluegrass will include the G2 Bluegrass Band (Sweden; #1 European Bluegrass
Band 2007) and Johnny Butten (UK; current holder of the Guinness Records title
'World's Fastest Banjo Player'). The EBMA will again be hosting the International
Suite showcases at the Nashville Convention Center (NCC), Room #104.. | | | | Date:
Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:31:19 -0300
From: Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: Europe
(and the rest of the world) at IBMA's World of Bluegrass
Howdy
folks, Here comes our Southern challenge for a new record for world fastest banjo
player, pre-qualified in the Livro da Guineia (Guineia Book) and hopefully running
now for Guinness. Check it out on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2aYyxR-NCqE
The tune is "SUNDAY", home-made and faster than Johnny Butten´s Dueling Banjos.
For our alternative dueling banjos spot, watch our "Titanic Deviation
Medley" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlWfPm3PHNng
Cheers Erio Meili
- Brazil
SPBMA - Sao Paulo Bluegrass Music Association
www.bluegrass.com.br
South American Bluegrass Network | | | | Date:
Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:44:26 EDT
From: Ira Gitlin
Subject: Europe (and the
rest of the world) at IBMA's World of Bluegrass
Nice tune and
nice picking, Erio, but it seems you were counting your beats in 4/4, while Johnny
was counting in 2/2. If you were to count in 2/2, your performance would clock
in at 160 beats per minute, well shy of Johnny's Guinness record.
Ira Gitlin
www.iragitlin.com | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:57:02 -0300
From: Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: Europe
(and the rest of the world) at IBMA's World of Bluegrass
Thanks
Ira,
Johnny was counting 2/4 (not 2/2) but you raised a good point.
This
electronic counting is misleading the speed of the notes played. When Todd Taylor
hit the banjo speed record before Johnny, the announcement was given as being
210 bpm (beats per minute) and he was using a drum machine that sounded more like
a machine gun than anything else. A few months later came Johnny Butten with a
new Guinness world record for fastest banjo player and using a cowbell feature,
clicking at 260 bpm for the same duelling banjos.
The speed was not the
banjo but the beat of the drum machine. You can set any kind of drum beat and
play YOUR speed if you stay within the beats, even waltzing (3/4) or taking Dave
Brubeck's Five (5/4). If you want to pick the waltzing of 90 bpm in a Dave Brubeck
time signature without losing driving speed, you must accelerate your electronic
fuel injection by 67% to 150 bpm.
My point is:
Duelling banjo is a
bad example to speed up for world record because you just ain´t doing better than
Eric Weissberg´s original "contaminating" version half a century ago. (And it
was not the movie, because I was not aware at that time that there was one)
The
measurement for banjo picking speed for a world record should not be in "beats
per minute" but in "notes per minute picked" without strumming (yeah! - Rolling).
That was my reason for adding on my youtube edition the remark "600 notes in 67
seconds" as complementary information to the marketable "320 bpm" machine gun
bench mark. I have my doubt if Johnny Butten or Todd Taylor were picking 600 notes
in 67 seconds on their dueling banjos (without strumming!)
To check out
for more you may find now my "Sunday" version in 4/4 time signature on our bluegrass
tablature section at http://www.bluegrass.com.br/BG_Tabs.htm with a midi file,
exactly running at 320 bpm and I was using its midi backup (guitar and bass, without
the banjo) to pick along on my Youtube version live at the "Titanic Harbor Stage".
Keep picking
Erio Meili
Sao Paulo Bluegrass Music Association
www.bluegrass.com.br
South American Bluegrass Network | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:43:11 EDT
From: Ira Gitlin
Subject: Europe (and the
rest of the world) at IBMA's World of Bluegrass
I saw Johnny's
YouTube clip, and I do believe he was picking, not strumming. But at that speed,
it's hard to tell! | | | | Date:
Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:41:55 -0300
From: Erio Meili
Subject: Europe (and
the rest of the world) at IBMA's World of Bluegrass
Hi Ira,
Sorry, I did not
mean to say that Johnny was strumming on his `duelling banjos`.
My point
was to emphacize a speed bench mark of banjo picking to be for picking as many
notes per minute as possible against Johnny's measuring the electronic beat per
minute bench mark (irrespective of the number of notes picked on his banjo) for
the guinness book of world records.
If someone would use strumming, this
would of course increase the amount of notes and speed of notes per minute arbitrarily
against the rules of a banjo picking speed within a fair and comparable speed
standard.
Listen to Bela Fleck`s Perpetual Motion with Bryan Sutton. He
was also on 320 bpm (at time signature 4/4) with an average of 8 eighth notes
per measure. This would make him run 80 measures per minute (320:4) which would
be 640 notes per minute (80x8) and he would have beaten my world record of 600
notes in 67 seconds. But since he has not yet applied for a pre-qualified Guinness
book world record in our `Livro da Guineia` at the Titanic Harbor Stage, it`s
ME who holds this record for the time being <G>. Now if Bela would take
it serious and come along to set up formalities for his a new world record, I
am sure Jens Kruger will come up and break the record again with his homemade
`Waterfall` at Up 18 North
If Guinness need better banjo consultants for better appraisals, I am still looking
for a day job! Hahaha!
Cheers Erio Meili - Brazil
Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Music Associattion
www.bluegrass.com.br
South American Bluegrass Network
| | | | Date:
Tue, 12 May 2009 17:48:01 -0300
From: Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: Biometric
Sunday
Alo amigos,
Next Sunday, May 17, the country where
I was born and raised (Switzerland) will be having a plebiscite to vote for a
federal approval in order to officially allow (or not) their citizen's passports
to be issued and become accepted within the international control regulations
that have been set up for all countries that are using now BIOMETRIC PASSPORTS.
Since I am a double citizen who can only leave my country (Brazil) with
a Brazilian passport (because I am not a tourist) but I have been using so far
my Swiss passport (as a tourist without the need of a visa) to enter and visit
USA (and usually taking along a banjo) or any other visa-waivered countries you
may understand that this Sunday voting results "far-away" in Switzerland may affect
me or a couple of other bluegrassers with a risk of suddenly being faced with
the need to apply for a couple of different visa to countries in order to travel
globally for not carrying along a biometric passport.
So to keep crossing
my "picking" fingers for a favorable biometric vote next Sunday I have just hit
a new world record for World Fastest Banjo Player in the Livro da Guineia (the
Guineia Book, pre-qualifying for Guinness world record) with my old tune called
"Sunday", again live at the Titanic Harbor Stage, but now at 330 bpm (former record
high was 320 bpm on June 15, 2008). The computer speed is 330 bpm (beats per minute
at time signature 4x4) and the human speed was 660 notes per minute (11 per second)
and you may watch both videos at the bottom of our page http://www.bluegrass.com.br/TitanicDeviationVideos.htm
"Earl Scruggs invented biometric bluegrass on October 27, 1947 by recording
"Bluegrass Breakdown" during a Classic Blue Grass Boys Columbia Session in Chicago
and hopefully the Swiss Government may celebrate their "Biometric Sunday" at the
end of this week."
Cheers
Beijos & Banjos!
Erio Meili
Sao
Paulo Bluegrass Music Association
www.bluegrass.com.br
South American
Bluegrass Network | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:40:37 -0300
From:
Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: World Fastest Banjo Player
Good
Day folks,
Since last Saturday, June 13, 2009 there is a new breaking
speed mark for world fastest banjo player in the Livro da Guineia (The Guineia
Book, pre-qualifying for Guinness world record).
This time it was Edson
Araujo picking his killer arrangement of Foggy Mountain Breakdown with 676 notes
per minute at drum machine speed of 360bpm (time sig 4x4). The scenario was again
live the Titanic Harbor Stage which from now on will be called "The Grand Ole
Harbory" You
can check out the live video now on our brand new web page for Escola Music Hill
at http://www.bluegrass.com.br/WorldFastestBanjo.htm and also with an access link
to the respective banjo tablature of Earl Scruggs' Foggy Mountain Breakdown, as
played by Edson Araujo.
Best Regards from the South!
Erio Meili -
Brazil
Sao Paulo Bluegrass Music Association
www.bluegrass.com.br
South
American Bluegrass Network | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:01:44 -0400
From: Tut Taylor
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
There is no one faster or cleaner than Jens Kruger,
Tutbro (The final authority )
Tut Taylor 808 Old 60 Wilkesboro,
NC
28697
www.tuttaylor.com | | | | Tue,
16 Jun 2009 18:04:28 +0000
From: D C Blood
Subject: World Fastest Banjo
Player
That's a most impressive performance...I for one, will
not be picking with him..(my top speed might be half of that) | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:20:05 +0000
From: Steve Martin
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Amen Tut. Add in or as musical. | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:01:06 -0300
From: Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: World
Fastest Banjo Player
Hi Tut, I fully agree with you. I am sure
Jens knows it for sure. The WATERFALL is the fastest banjo masterpiece I have
ever heard live (but Jens has not signed the Guineia Book yet <G>) and
his CORK HARBOR (the leaving port of the Titanic when Bill Monroe was only 6 months
old) is another gem for sure. I am the Jens Kruger Fan #1 on the Southern part
of our planet and I will do everthing to keep holding on! However, the Swiss Chamber
of Commerce in Sao Paulo will have to be turned around to become convinced of
the Kruger Brothers, same as were we!
Thanks for your common agreement!
Erio | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:03:20 -0400
From: Chris Sharp
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
The click at the beginning of this video somewhere
around 180bpm. He is not playing anything close to the outlandish claim of 11.3
notes per second (which is claimed on the video). I would like to see any human,
or machine, produce 11.3 notes per second and still have it sound like something
that resembles music. Be realistic. This is ridiculous. | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:17:38 EDT
From: Ira Gitlin
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Chris and Erio,
I respectfully disagree with both
of you. At 180 BPM (2/2 time; bass plays 180 notes per minute, in standard bluegrass
rhythm), a rolling banjo will indeed play 12 notes per second. While this is certainly
VERY fast, it's not that unusual--and certainly not record-setting. IIRC, J.D.
Crowe played "Train 45" at that speed on the Bluegrass Holiday album in 1968,
and the Tom Adams (with the Johnson Mountain Boys) played a couple of songs even
faster on the At The Old Schoolhouse album in 1988. They managed to sound quite
musical, too. And that's just off the top of my head. We could come up with many
more examples.
Johnny Butten (260 BPM in 2/2 time!) and other serious
contenders for the "fastest banjo player" title, however, leave J.D. and Tom in
the dust by a long way--at least where speed is concerned. But their record-setting
attempts are (agreeing with Chris here) best viewed as athletics, not art. That
said, I've jammed with Johnny Butten (at much slower speeds, of course), and he
is a very musical player.
Ira Gitlin
Alexandria, VA
www.iragitlin.com
| | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:39:34 -0400
From: Chris Sharp
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Just a little experiment for you. Take a stop watch
and see if you can do anything 11, or 12 as you claim, times in 1 second. I do
mean anything. Can you take all of your fingers and thumbs and, one at a time,
tap them all on a desk within 1 second? That is close to being possible but what
you're suggesting is that people can play, and have played, banjo with that sort
of speed. Count as fast as you can, in your mind, from 1 to 12 while looking at
a stopwatch and then ask yourself if you still think it's possible to play 12
notes in 1 second. It doesn't physically work. Sorry. Just take a second (pardon
the pun) and really think about how much time you're dealing with to achieve you
what you claim can be done. Even if it were possible to execute I doubt the mind
would hear more than jumbled notes and no hint of a discernible melody. | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:20:57 -0400
From: Archie Warnock
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Chris Sharp wrote:
> Just a little experiment
for you. Take a stop watch and see if you can
> do anything 11, or 12 as you
claim, times in 1 second. I do mean
> anything. Can you take all of your fingers
and thumbs and, one at a
> time, tap them all on a desk within 1 second? That
is close to being
Yes - I can do it 3 or 4 times in a second.
Archie
| | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:30:22 -0400
From: Chris Sharp
Subject: Re: World Fastest
Banjo Player
You can make 30 distinct taps in 1 second? | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:46:47 -0400
From: Archie Warnock
Subject: Re: World
Fastest Banjo Player
Chris Sharp wrote:
> You can make 30
distinct taps in 1 second?
12-16 easily, drumming the fingers (not my
thumb) on one hand. Obviously, it's not the same as picking the strings on a banjo
but you said, "Take a stop watch and see if you can do anything 11, or 12 as you
claim, times in 1 second. I do mean anything."
The answer is "Yes, I can."
Archie | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:58:21 -0400
From: Chris Sharp
Subject: Re: World Fastest
Banjo Player
I'll pay you for the unedited soundbite. | | | | Tue,
16 Jun 2009 16:23:15 EDT
From: Ira Gitlin
Subject: Re: World Fastest Banjo
Player
Chris, Look, it's simple arithmetic. At 180 beats a minute,
the bass plays three times a second. For each bass "boom", the guitar plays "boom-chick",
so the guitarist is hitting the strings six times a second. Finally, the banjo
rolls along at twice the speed of the guitar's basic rhythm, so the banjo is playing
twelve notes a second. It doesn't matter whether you deny that it's possible.
We've all heard it done. Count along for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRzzrzyX6UI
Ira
www.iragitlin.com | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:25:32 -0400
From: Chris Sharp
Subject: Re: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Hi Ira and everyone else.
First I think I
should say that after the last time I put my foot in my mouth, about the Dixie
Chicks, I would have learned to do some research before jumping in on something.
The truth is that it honestly did seem impossible to me that such a speed was
achievable and several musicians I talked with also tended to agree, so I continued
the post before researching it. I did do the math, prior to it's posting, and
I thought that I must be missing something because it did work out that 16th note
rolls would come out at 12 per second at a tempo of 180 bpm. In my mind though
it didn't seem possible so I stubbornly stuck with my instincts....bad decision
and an ignorant assumption.
I opened up a Pro Tools session later today
and recorded a few measures of "Cripple Creek" at 90 bpm. I then sped that track
up to 180 bpm and set the grid to view seconds. Fully expecting this evidence
to prove my point (I intended to post it on my MySpace complete with screenshots)
I was shocked to see that I was, in fact, seeing and hearing 12 notes per second
on 16th note rolls. I even realized that if one were to do triplets then it would
be possible to play 18 notes in a second.
I did one more test to confirm
that I was wrong. My band had recently recorded a CD in which 2 of the songs are
around 170 bpm. I soloed the banjo player and counted 16th note rolls and, sure
enough, the confirmation was right there on my own CD.
I apologize for
rushing into this. I feel an odd mixture of humility, gratefulness for the learning
experience, and embarrassment by my rashness.
I will say one other thing
though. The tempo on the "Foggy Mtn. Breakdown" video was 180 bpm, not 360. Even
though I've read quite a few cracks about Todd Taylor's 207 bpm "Dueling Banjos"
(and admittedly made a few of my own among friends) he could pull this same sort
stunt and say he played the song at 414 bpm. I am definitely wrong about the 12
note/second part but there is no way this tempo is 360 bpm.
I fully intend
to learn from this mistake and continue to keep learning. I haven't posted in
a while and that one just kind of got to me so I hope to possibly be granted a
pass for rashness maybe once more.
Thanks for your time in reading this
and again my apologies.
Chris Sharp - all too often over-confident musician.
| | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:58:43 -0400
From: Art Menius
Subject: Re: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Hey, Chris. That's a great post fully extracting
foot from mouth, IMHO | | | | Date:
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:30:37 -0400
From: Archie Warnock
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Art Menius wrote:
> Hey, Chris. That's a great post fully
extracting foot from mouth, IMHO
I agree. It's always good to hear from
Chris, even on those very rare occasions when he might be mistaken :
As far
as World's Fastest Banjo Player goes, I've watched the video Erio posted of FMB
and I know, having been in a band with him, that I've heard Mike Munford play
it faster than that. I had the hand cramp to prove it.
Archie | | | | Date:
Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:36:11 -0300
From: Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: World
Fastest Banjo Player
Thank you all for all those banjo speed questioning
posts (on the bgrass-L and IBMA-L lists). Here comes my review of Edson Araujo's
World Fastest Banjo Player picking of last Saturday, June 13 with some of my thoughts
on banjo picking speed:
Two years ago, in September 2007 I saw Johnny
Butten from England on YouTube breaking an apparent Guinness World Record of banjo
speed with 260 bpm that was held formerly by Todd Taylor from America at 210 bpm
since February 2007.
No one has so far ever mentioned or questioned any
banjo speed parameters to better be measured in "notes picked per second" or "notes
picked per minute" (instead of bpm units). This was probably justified by a biometric
excuse that the computer or drum machine may better dictate the stop watch for
human banjo rolls for both pickers when performing such a popular and well known
tune like "Dueling Banjos" for a big and knowledgeable and cybernetic live audience.
Let's face it; the Dueling Banjos tune is a bad example to be taken to
measure banjo picking speed as parameter because the guitar part (played in this
case also with a banjo) has much less notes than the responding banjo part. Then
Tod Taylor's 210 bpm version was accompanied by an irritating machine gun drum
sound of 8 beats (I think) per measure and Johnny Button's version at 260 bpm
had also a drum machine but with 4 beats (time signature 2x4) per measure. When
listening to both I had the impression that Tod Taylor was fitting in more notes
into his version and was even picking faster (more notes per second) than Johnny.
This banjo speed measured in bpm is indeed very misleading and I am glad
to see the evidence now by the misleading interpretation of Chris Sharp (on the
IBMA-L list) on his first reaction on my opening post on this subject.
So
what I have done last year was to use my own banjo tune "Sunday", evidenced with
my self-written banjo tablature script and set a new record with 600 notes in
67 seconds (320 bpm at time signature 4x4). However, I got a favorable comment
from a visitor a few months ago appreciating my picking but he made also a statement
saying that Earl Scruggs was already picking at this speed in 1962 on his "Foggy
Mountain Breakdown" at Carnegie Hall.
So I took the challenge for a re-take
of my "Sunday" version, added some additional notes on some "formerly useless"
rests and set up a new record last month, on May 10, now with 660 notes per minute
(10 per second) at 330bpm.
Then last Saturday I called up friend Edson
Araujo to make him set up a new World Fastest Banjo Player record for the "Livro
da Guineia" live at "The Grand Ole Harbory", finally picking now Foggy Mountain
Breakdown in his own way at the killer speed of 360 bpm with 11,3 notes per second
(676 notes per minute). The opening three clicks in the first measure (only) come
from the midi-drum kick-off with a cowbell timber in the tabledit-tablature but
the bass run of the tablature (midi-sound) is also on during the whole performance
at a very low level just to keep us synchronized with the 360 bpm speed during
the picking where you will hear now Edson Araujo doing banjo runs of the basic
theme of FMB, being ...
the first one similar to Earl Scruggs or JD Crowe
or whoever you consider Scruggs imitators (not duplicators!)
On the second
run you can hear Edson with a thankful Carl Jackson inspired melodic run.
Then
3rd run is back to Scruggs and the 4th run comes up with an explosive and crazy
Bela Fleck newgrass tsunami wave merging into
the 5th run back for honering
Earl and his signature ending.
I have not heard or seen any faster FMB
picking so far but any world record is here to be broken at any time.
Thanks
for listening to
http://www.bluegrass.com.br/WorldFastestBanjo.htm
(and
copying the banjo tabs)
Erio Meili
Sao Paulo Bluegrass Music Association
www.bluegrass.com.br
South American Bluegrass Network | | | | Date:
Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:32:45 EDT
From: Ira Gitlin
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Erio, If it helps you to get over the "beats per minute"
issue, Johnny Butten's 260 BPM (rolling 16th notes in 2/4 time) can also be represented
as 520 BPM (rolling 8th notes in 4/4 time). But no matter how you slice it, that's
an amazing 17 notes per second. (I sure can't play anywhere near that fast!)
At
that speed, it doesn't sound much like music, but you can see in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNmBtQFLCfgs
that he really does it. The drum machine makes no difference. The guitar part
makes no difference. "Biometrics" makes no difference. As I wrote in an earlier
post, count the beats, then do the math.
Ira Gitlin
www.iragitlin.com | | | | Date:
Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:27:20 -0300
From: Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: World
Fastest Banjo Player
Ira, I am sorry but I have to explain it
again, now in more details:
Johnny Butten's YouTube link you mentioned is
at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNmBtQFLCfgs (and not http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3DNmBtQFLCfgs)
Yes, you can watch it on the video. Johnny Butten's drum machine is running
at 2x4 time signature but his picking are 8th notes (not 16th notes) in the fast
part of his banjo picking. So your 17 notes per second is a wishful thinking and
un-human if you don't mind. It is 8.5 notes per second.
To better show
you the facts I prepared today a quick banjo tablature for dueling banjos, not
exactly to how Johnny was picking but similar and in order for you to check the
speed you may now listen to the genuine midi file of that tablature at 260 bpm
(time signature 2x4) and a comparable midi file at half the speed (130 bpm) which
is about the speed of Johnny's picking. It is at http://www.bluegrass.com.br/MusicHill_SpeedTest.htm
So if you want to compare this picking now democratically in 4x4 time
signature with Edson Araujo's FMB at 360 bpm (at 4x4) you may look at Johnny Button
picking Dueling Banjos at 260 bpm (at 4x4). So Edson Araujo is now the man. BTW
The Dueling Banjos tab at 130 bpm (time signature 2x4) averages 5,9 notes per
second and the fast banjo part in between is about 8.6 notes per second. Edson
on FMB is at 11.3 notes per second.
Sorry, but when I was a kid I was
about the same <G>
Erio Meili
Sao Paulo Bluegrass Music Association
www.bluegrass.com.br
South American Bluegrass Network | | | | Date:
Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:25:04 EDT
From: Ira Gitlin
Subject: Re: World Fastest
Banjo Player
Erio,
Please accept my apology for the flippant
response I gave to your most recent post. After I sent it, it occurred to me that
perhaps you hadn't viewed the entire Johnny Butten YouTube clip. Johnny does indeed
start out at 130 BPM (c. 8.5 notes per second), but if you jump to the 1:43 mark,
you can hear him repeat the arrangement at 260 BPM (c. 17 notes per second).
Ira
| | | | Date:
Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:31:33 -0300
From: Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: World
Fastest Banjo Player
Ira,
No way to accept your 17 notes per second statement.
Listen to
my comparable midi file at 260 bpm at http://www.bluegrass.com.br/MusicHill_SpeedTest.htm
When Johnny Butten starts his picking at mark 1:43 he is picking 8.5 notes
per second (not 17 notes) This is the part where I only inserted 4 notes per measure
on my demo tab (2x4). I could double it if you wish, in line with Johnny's arpeggio
to make it 8 notes per measure but this does not change the fact of the speed
question and will never get to the unhuman 17 notes per second (18.4 notes per
measure at 2x4 time signature at 260 bpm).You may ask Johnny to do the tab adjustment
for me if you don't mind.
Cheers Erio | | | | Date:
Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:35:58 -0600
From: Ron Thomason
Subject: World Fastest
Banjo Player
They say Pythagoras "invented" western music, and
I always supposed that that was what made it so "mathematical." But you guys are
the ones who should take aaawwwwlllllllll the credit for making it "arithmetical."
RT | | | | Date:
Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:45:21 -0300
From: Sao Paulo Bluegrass
Subject: World
Fastest Banjo Player
Hi Ron,
For the fun of it, western music
is not across the Mississippi. Pythagoras in Greece was an unconscious and premature
bluegrass fan who would have loved to SING DIXIE FOR ME and to see this thing
going further south after he got fed up with mathematics at Wall Street <G>
Hold
on - Bluegrass is the sound!
Erio Meili
Sao Paulo Bluegrass Music Association
www.bluegrass.com.br
South American Bluegrass Network | | | | Date:
Fri June 18 2010 - comment on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HXYdGGKV2k
mah0one72
has made a comment on World Fastest Banjo Player:
That was quite
fast, but 11 notes per second means that you're playing at a speed of 165 bpm,
not 330. The limit of humanly possible banjo playing speed is said to be at about
200 bpm or a little more. You can reply to this comment by visiting the comments
page.
| | | | Date:
Fri June 18 2010 - reply by eriobras at www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HXYdGGKV2k
Your computer (or drum machine) speed of 165 bpm (beats per minutes)
stands for music with time signature 2x4. It is the same speed if you show it
as 330 bpm for a music with time signature 4x4. The same 11 notes are played per
second. The bpm measuring is not the “banjo picking speed of notes per second
”. You may let the computer beat at any bpm rate and still pick your banjo at
11 notes per second.
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